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What the hell is the stock market doing?

What the hell is the stock market doing?   It's reaping huge profits from another government bailout.  Your quote: " This is mostly about an unprecedented government stimulus that is going to households and businesses and, let’s be frank, will NOT be saved by households because American households don’t save" misses the point.  1. The "stimulus" is going to businesses.  2. It's not that households don't save, it's because they CAN'T save.   The history of duopolistic (Dems and Reps) governance is to allow the lowest 90% of income earners enough breadcrumbs from the corporate table to keep them satisfied.  THAT is why only the top 10% have representation in our government ( see https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf ).The key to regaining our democracy is to eliminate the influence of money in politics.  I intend to be at the grassroots level of this movement by running for a state office (see:  tomroll.wixsite.com/ohrep ).   I have had enough.

Hi @TROLL,

It's simply not true that this is only bailing out businesses. I don't even know how this narrative caught steam. It's a load of horse shit.

20 million people have filed for uninsurance benefits so far. We've got another 10-20 million in the hopper. So you're looking at AT LEAST $500B in uninsurance benefits JUST from the govt's side of the UI CARES Act. Then you have $800B in small business grants. Another $400B in state funding.

This doesn't even include all the other line items that are going to contribute to the deficit this year. Things like SNAP and disability, etc.

There's an inequality in this country that has contribute to the inability to save enough for many households. That's true. But that's a separate policy debate. The CARES Act, despite being imperfect is not just a bailout of rich people. It's going to get trillions of dollars into middle class hands. That's great and very different from the 08 bailouts which were mostly for bankers.

"Pragmatic Capitalism is the best website on the Internet. Just trust me. Please?" - Cullen Roche

You want horse shit?  Take a look at YOUR title to your op-ed :  "What the hell is the stock market doing?"  What it's NOT doing is reacting to helping the 90%.  You almost said it yourself, "...[the people]... don't save....".  I said they "can't save".  Either way, the money winds up going to the top - and that ain't horse shit, that's a fact.  All that money you say is going to the working class is going up - and that is "What the hell the stock market is doing".

Capitalism provides prosperity, but considerable inequality.  Socialism provides equality, but considerable poverty.  We need balance, but this country is out of balance; and the imbalance is caused by the influence of money on politics.  This is what needs to be fixed in order to save our democracy.  Horse shit can be great fertilizer if used properly, let's use it wisely.

@troll,

You want to solve inequality? You need to do the things I've been advocating for for years. Like raising the cap gains tax to ordinary rates. That way the stock market isn't just for rich people. Instead, it helps distribute the gains more equitably.

But will that change the fact that, Americans, as a society, do not save? I don't know. Honestly, I think a big part of American life is "keeping up with the Joneses". We don't save in large part because we feel the need to have the latest iPhone and the latest BMW model and the latest this or that. I have almost no doubt that even if we raised wages and taxed the hell out of the rich that the average person would still save virtually nothing. So the same money flows to the same corporations. Actually, more of it flows to corporations because people with a higher propensity to spend will have the money.

That said, I am all for higher taxes and higher wages. But I don't think it will necessarily solve inequality.

"Pragmatic Capitalism is the best website on the Internet. Just trust me. Please?" - Cullen Roche

You are probably correct that greed is inherent in all people, not just the the top 10% of income earners; but as long as the top 10% control the political situation (as they presently do), the inequality in government representation is inordinately skewed toward those with money.  I would like to at least reduce the influence of money in politics and force government to be more responsive to ALL income groups.

Quote from Cullen Roche on 05/04/2020, 10:35 AM

The CARES Act, despite being imperfect is not just a bailout of rich people. It's going to get trillions of dollars into middle class hands. That's great and very different from the 08 bailouts which were mostly for bankers.

Trillions and trillions have been going to the big Wall Street banks. And this started last September, months before the pandemic. Banks were in trouble and it was their own fault. But because there is no Glass-Steagall anymore, the Fed must bail out the banks whenever they are in trouble, for any reason!!

Huge amounts of money have been pouring into the big banks, FAR more than is going to the American public.

 

 

 

Quote from troll on 05/05/2020, 6:40 AM

You want horse shit?  Take a look at YOUR title to your op-ed :  "What the hell is the stock market doing?"  What it's NOT doing is reacting to helping the 90%.  You almost said it yourself, "...[the people]... don't save....".  I said they "can't save".  Either way, the money winds up going to the top - and that ain't horse shit, that's a fact.  All that money you say is going to the working class is going up - and that is "What the hell the stock market is doing".

Capitalism provides prosperity, but considerable inequality.  Socialism provides equality, but considerable poverty.  We need balance, but this country is out of balance; and the imbalance is caused by the influence of money on politics.  This is what needs to be fixed in order to save our democracy.  Horse shit can be great fertilizer if used properly, let's use it wisely.

Most people miss the biggest and most obvious reason for the inequality. Why has inequality increased dramatically since 2008? It's the bailouts, the stimulus, the QE.

Don't blame capitalism. The problem is corruption.

Lots of detailed information here: https://wallstreetonparade.com/

Quote from Cullen Roche on 05/05/2020, 8:47 AM

@troll,

You want to solve inequality? You need to do the things I've been advocating for for years. Like raising the cap gains tax to ordinary rates. That way the stock market isn't just for rich people. Instead, it helps distribute the gains more equitably.

But will that change the fact that, Americans, as a society, do not save? I don't know. Honestly, I think a big part of American life is "keeping up with the Joneses". We don't save in large part because we feel the need to have the latest iPhone and the latest BMW model and the latest this or that. I have almost no doubt that even if we raised wages and taxed the hell out of the rich that the average person would still save virtually nothing. So the same money flows to the same corporations. Actually, more of it flows to corporations because people with a higher propensity to spend will have the money.

That said, I am all for higher taxes and higher wages. But I don't think it will necessarily solve inequality.

It just is not true that Americans don't save. Maybe they don't have a lot of cash in their savings accounts, but many Americans have equity in their homes, and many have retirement accounts through their employers. It is typical for an American to retire with pretty good assets, between the retirement account and money they get from downsizing their home.

And another reason Americans aren't saving in bank accounts -- interest has been kept so low, they are forced into stocks and bonds. That is a big reason for the stock market bubble.